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Post by Antonio Correia on Feb 12, 2012 22:49:18 GMT
Interesting the fact that sometimes coloured photographs - in spite of having some interest - when converted to B&W acquire a different mood and ambiance. I would even say a better value. Because of this forum and what we have been doing here like working with B&W, Dave's work among others like Barry just to mention but two, I myself have been gaining conscience of the importance and impact of such version. It is also true that - being old that I am - I was used to see B&W far before colours. I still keep some 30/40 of my father's images in ... B&W. I show you here a photo I took today in colour and in B&W and judge for yourself. On the other hand I am absolutely conscient/aware that the frame of the window in the background is terrible not to say horrible. I will try to remove it but this goes beyond the scope of this thread. What do you people think ?  -  |
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Post by chrisc on Feb 12, 2012 23:34:10 GMT
Quite obviously, B&W...too many orange-yellow-tan tones running together to get a dominate balance.
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Post by Antonio Correia on Feb 12, 2012 23:38:40 GMT
The justification is not enough Chris  In many different images the same happens, don't you think so ? |
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Post by chrisc on Feb 12, 2012 23:40:12 GMT
It does, but with those orange values more in the skin tones (very hard to color adjust for), I see the B&W having a greater range.
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Post by jjbacoomba on Feb 13, 2012 1:45:51 GMT
I like the color better in this one. I Do like B&W and feel that some subjects are better suited to B&W.
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Post by jeeperman on Feb 13, 2012 2:03:09 GMT
Antonio, I am on the color side here as well. Both are good but I like the warmth and emotion the color brings out.
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Post by maryloveslucy on Feb 13, 2012 2:31:45 GMT
At first I liked the B&W but, the warmth of the color keeps my attention more.
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Post by robnaylor on Feb 13, 2012 8:38:28 GMT
In this image, the colours are defining the forms, not the tones, so colour for me too. As Chris says, skin tones are too close a match to the clothing tones, making the image appear a little flat. Examples of this close "tonal match", can be seen in two distinct areas of this image... 1 - the lady's arm over her husband's shoulder - in colour it clearly is her arm, but in BW it is ambiguous. 2 - the lady's other arm - in colour is is clearly behind her husband arm, whereas in the BW it looks like she has a man's hand and hairy arm - very odd! Hope this helps Antonio... |
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Post by chrisc on Feb 13, 2012 11:19:48 GMT
The first and foremost immediate problem with the B&W is Antonio didn't match value to value, tone to tone across the board, but did so rather selectively.
As has been pointed out, his hand seems to blend inharmoniously with hers, but look at the tonal value of his sweater compared to hers in the B&W version and note they are incorrectly the same tonal value, hence the confusion. In reality, the tan would have to be at least one value darker which would immediately reduce any confusion as to who was whom.
Two other defining points to the conversion is their hair colors, neither of which match value to value and the baby's blue jumper which should be at least one value darker. Properly converted to a grayscale and antonio is among the best, I still think the skin tones will make this image far more successful in B&W than in color.
Even Antonio noted there was yet work to be done on the image, so I'm going to stay with B&W and see if he takes it further as he has done with all his other conversions.
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Post by The Wirefox on Feb 13, 2012 21:50:58 GMT
Both Rob and Chris's observations are symptomatic of what I keep droning on about with respect to thinking in b/w. Conversion is a finishing tool not the defining moment that decides whether an image should be b/w or not. A successful b/w image is conceived at point of capture. The b/w photographer is sensitive to the proximity and intensity of tones and is thinking ahead as to how these combinations can be enhanced within the conversion process. SEP, PS, GIMP etc do not create b/w images...the photographer does. This is often a subconscious process which clicks when the SOOC image is viewed. It goes without saying that photographers who shoot vivid colours in high contrast with colour wheel complements will find their images more suitable for indecisive conversion.
As to Antonio's original question...it is obvious the image was not planned for conversion so the colour image is instinctively a better image.
Of course conversion can be successfully back fitted to archive images but you need to be aware of the same properties the b/w photographer perceives at capture. I find applying a Velvia film plugin to the colour image helps enormously with this decision process.
I like the image Antonio. It is a very real and intimate family moment
Sent from my GT-I9100 using ProBoards
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Post by Barry on Feb 13, 2012 22:22:02 GMT
I know what you mean about viewing the same image in colour and B&W, and both giving you a different feeling. Some images will work in both formats, and your example here proves that, although I prefer the colour one in this particular example, but only slightly, maybe with a bit of different processing then the B&W version may view better in my eye.
Now that is another point with B&W photography, I feel that there is so much more that you can do with B&W over colour to change the effect of how we see a B&W image.
Plus some images just cry out to be B&W, takes Dave's 'Tittle Tattle' on the Railroad' image, although it was presented to us in colour, we all seemed to agree that B&W was the way to go on that particular image.
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Post by chrisc on Feb 13, 2012 23:24:00 GMT
Me again...but he did present the image in both formats as if there was intent to do both...else why the presentation?
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Post by Antonio Correia on Feb 14, 2012 18:14:52 GMT
Thank you all for the lines written. Thank you indeed. I was looking but nor seing the confusion of arms at our right side and at our left side behind my son's shoulder. And you are absolutely right ! I am going to try to make something better this time. Just give me a few minutes if you please  |
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Post by Antonio Correia on Feb 14, 2012 18:43:33 GMT
When a photo does not work the first time it is rare that it does the next times.  I do not like this one either. The baby has too much light and I can't avoid it. The flash was bounced to the ceiling... For me, it is hard to work with the flash. And I do not practice much so my progress is very low. A shame.  But my issue was not about the treatment imposed to an image but on the impact a B&W has on the viewer. |
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Post by jeeperman on Feb 14, 2012 18:53:31 GMT
This is much better Antonio, however I am still slightly bias to the color version.
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